Wednesday, July 28, 2010

No Fats, Femmes, Asians, or Oldies

Online dating/cruising is a minefield of snap judgments and highly specific standards that the gay community knows all too well. Maybe it's because there's not too many of us to begin with (as compared to our straight pals) and we flock to the net to find each other, or because dating websites are just so damn popular now... or maybe both of these reasons, but the world of online dating/cruising is not new to LGBT people. I remember when I was first coming out, the internet was such an amazing resource for talking to individuals who actually understood the issues I was going through. I have and always will have a special place in my heart for the web, as it is both a meeting point for like-minded individuals who have not been given a voice, a resource for education, and also a tool for social justice.

So there I was, talking to another gay guy about life... when he mentioned to me that he felt so amazingly old. He confided in me that not too many gay guys talked to him anymore because of his age. He was 25. He mentioned that he wants to find a LTR (long term relationship) before he turns 30, because at that point he will be considered dead in the gay community.

I was watching Another Gay Movie with some friends (pretty funny at parts, if you can get over the crazy stereotyping... it became such a staple in my apartment that we would watch it in conjuction with Mamma Mia  almost daily while doing homework and refer to our evening plans as experiencing 'Another Gay Mamma') when I noticed a movie gag about 4 guys going into a gay bar. They're asked how old they are by some bears to which one guy sweetly replies that he's only 17. The bears scoff and say that he's already peaked within the gay community, and leaves him to find younger guys.

Of course this movie gag is completely in jest, but it brings up an interesting piece of gay male culture: the rampant ageism. The man I was talking to online was not kidding when he told me that he felt like he was going to be considered dead when he reached the age of 30. He was perhaps making an exaggeration, but was picking up on a very real truth within the gay male community: youth is worshiped. This may sound no different from straight culture (given that bieber is being fetishized by women) but ageism is even more apparent within the gay male community.

In Darker Shades of Queer, Chong-suk Han discusses his experiences as a gay man of color, and how he has noticed blatant racism within queer circles in addition to homophobia in communities of color. He brings up the critical point that oppressed groups that would benefit from being empathetic to each other's causes (people of color and non-heterosexuals) often discriminate against each other in order to cling to the small piece of privilege that hate brings with it, leaving queer people of color to live in the borderlands of these groups, not necessarily feeling welcome in either. Think about it. In Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, The L Word, and Queer as Folk (which are unfortunately seen as the tantamount of gay experience) mainly feature upper middle class white people.

Author Jason Chang really hits the nail on the head when he discusses how Asian-American men in particular are seen as feminine and as undesirable sex partners (sexism/racism/heterosexism connection). This goes in concert with Chong-suk Han's argument, who agrees and goes on to discuss how Black and Hispanic men are seen as hyper-masculine and over-sexualized to the point of people viewing them as sex objects.

I was on a cruising website (probably not the kind of cruise you're thinking of) talking to this guy, when he responded by telling me that he wasn't interested in femmes. At the time, I had no idea what he meant by 'femme' other than that I was probably being associated with a woman. I probed him for more information (as I often do with strangers) and he told me that based on how I look/presented myself, I was too feminine for him. He told me that he is only looking for straight-acting (i.e. masculine) men. I thought to myself, "Okay, that's just one person's preference" and proceeded to look for other guys with less gender-representation-specific standards. I took me all of 1 minute to find another guy with a profile that said "No femmes"... and then another and another and another. I have never seen a dating/cruising profile or even heard of a gay man who is unattracted to 'straight-acting' men. 

All of these connected stories lead to my main idea: marginalization of these groups. Unfortunately it's all too common for gay men to proclaim they deem a combination (or perhaps all) of these groups unattractive. Many claim that their attraction is based on personal preference... and indeed it is... but (if you know me) you know that I like to look at how the big-picture/society shapes our individual experiences/actions/motivations/desires. To say that our desires are only internal and biological would be false, as it pays no homage to how culture and history shape our current situations/desires (and indeed they do). Of course biology does play a role in our sexual attractions, but so do social norms and cultural expectations. What individuals in one society may collectively deem attractive may not carry over to another time period, or even another culture. To say that men are only attracted to blonde haired and blue eyed women is an amazingly white-centered, hetero-normative idea that does not hold up when looking at sexual attraction across the world, throughout time, or among same-sex couples.

 That being said, in gay male culture in United States, there are some cultural moors that dictate who is and isn't attractive. These ideals that white, trim, masculine men are the most attractive are, I believe, a potent mix of sexism, racism, and internalized hetero-sexism. Actually, it's not just here, and not just with gay men.

This is not to say that all people are racist (white people tend to freak out when I use the word 'racism', so I try to explain myself extra carefully so as to make them less defensive and more likely to listen), but it is to say that our snap judgments we make about who is and is not attractive are influenced in part from several cultural ideals that place specific individuals (who have historically held the most societal power) at the pinnacle of attraction. Is it a coincidence that gay males tend to view feminine men as less attractive, when we live in a society that grants more social, cultural, and economic power to men? I think not.

It could be said that my argument is simply me lamenting from not being labeled at the most attractive, but I ask you to do your own research. Go onto gay male dating/cruising websites and take a look. Hell, go onto craigslist. See for yourself. Tell me what you find.


P.S. The female cast of the L Word is actually made of entirely heterosexual women... because apparently straight women are better at being lesbians than... lesbians. Really makes you think about how 'gayness' marketed on TV is actually quite different from the everyday experiences of queer people.

6 comments:

  1. Harvey, this is so insightful (and very well-written). I had no idea that such discrimination exists within the gay community. And the 8th paragraph, the main idea, is EXACTLY right (when I read that paragraph I had one of those experiences that was like, "Whoa, that sounds so much like me - did I write that?")

    Your main point reminds me of America's sexualization of female breasts, and people think it's a "natural attraction," yet in other parts of the world breasts aren't sexual at all, but, say, feet are, or legs.

    Excellent, excellent post.

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  2. Wow. Very well-written. It's funny, because I feel like I fit into opposing norms, including your hated "dudebro" to a point(okcupid: danny81381), but also femmes, fatties, and oldies. And I'm in a wheelchair, to boot. Haha. But it's not so widespread, but certain people have to keep it quiet. I'm actually more attracted to "femmes" because it makes me feel more masculine. Societal norm, I suppose. My point is, we should totally go out sometime. Hahahahaha. (I tend to ramble when I'm nervous.) Hit me up if you want to chat sometime. ;-)

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  3. I am pretty sure that Leisha Hailey who played "Alice" on the L Word is a lesbian, and very open about it.

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  4. I'm a masculine, average joe type of guy. By that, I mean traditionally masculine, the same demeanor as your average straight man. I'm not flamboyant, I don't have a gay lisp, no limp wrists, no desire to gender-bend, or cross-dress, I'm not into show-tunes, Cher, or Streissand. I'd rather go see an action- or horror flick that the latest chick-flick at the theater. When I eat out, I'll order a beer rather than a Shirley Temple.

    It's interesting that in order to define my masculinity, it's easier to name the things I'm NOT, rather than the things I AM.

    The mantra of the Gay Community for the longest time has been "masculinity has no definition", "Masculinity can be anything". This sentiment is particularly prevalent among the gay men who are quite fem - and they use these clichés in order to attract the actually masculine men in said community.
    I've been on too many dates (Voice chat dates, or "real" ones) with this type of guys to see the obvious pattern. It takes about 10 minutes for the purse to fall out of their mouth, and then that's it. Night is ruined. These days any guy with limp wrists and a severe gay lisp could claim themselves as masculine.

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  5. Continued...

    Trouble is, masculine men have a tendency to only be interested in other masculine men. I'm one of them. I have ended profile presentations with "No Fems". I don't see why I shouldn't, because I'm tired of wasting my time on guys contacting me who have no chance of winning my interest, right off the bat. If fems take offense by this, it's their own insecurity. More over, if a guy's mannerisms shouldn't matter, and that every gay should give any gay a chance - why don't they date other effeminate men? If even a limp-wristed, lisping gay-"boi" can classify as masculine as they claim, why do they constantly bother guys like me?

    More often than not, I have been accused of being discriminating, disloyal, intolerant, and homophobic. What needs to be established here, is that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with being an effeminate gay man. It's just not what I'm attracted to. I have the same attraction for fems as I do for women - none. My mind does not connect with an effeminate mind, there is simply no personal chemistry. So then why not put the disclaimer at the end of every contact ad, and that way, my time isn't wasted and neither is theirs.

    This of course works only in theory. As I mentioned above, I've gotten quite a few guys contacting me who either try to fake it, or are simply overly hopeful that they will make such an impression on my that I will have a total change of heart or something. This has never happened, and won't happen.

    Why is it then that the stereotypical "queer" crowd loves to market themselves as so proud of who they are, and try so desperately to blur the definition of what masculinity actually is - yet when push comes to shove go to such great lengths in order to impress guys like me, even to the point of taking on a fake persona that they couldn't possibly hope to maintain for longer than 10 minutes?

    The answer is, I believe, that the traditionally masculine man is the most sought after of all types of homosexual men, and everyone wants to end up with one.
    I think the reason in turn, is that everyone wants to live with a sense of normalcy. As we homosexual men are becoming an increasingly "normal" part of society, the need for the "Gay Community" is waning. We no longer need to be confined to a minority to fulfill the need for social acceptance or to find partners.

    Some of us, that is. Particularly the traditionally masculine homosexual men, like me. Although I'm not obvious, or "in your face" by any means, I don't hide my sexuality to anyone. Yet where ever I go, I'm met with respect. Many straight guys have told me I'm the coolest gay person they know, because I don't act like some flaming fag. Now, according to the phantom authority known as the Gay Community, by these kinds of remarks, I should take great offense on behalf of every fellow gay out there.

    Well, I don't.
    Instead, I feel proud. I don't need to strut down the street wearing only thong and a feather-boa in order to boost my self worth. All I need to do is to be myself, laid back and unforced.

    SO... let masculine homos be who they wanna be. Just because many of us don't take part of the Gay Community, and prefer to hang out with like-minded, doesn't mean we're a cult. Since when is it a rule for every homosexual man to identify with, or belong to it? The Gay Community is not, and has never been an authority we need to answer to. People will do what they wanna do, date, hook up, or partner up with whomever they want - and there is nothing anybody can or should do to change them
    I also urge people to stop moralizing over "No fats, no fems". People's preferences and demeanor is not a political matter. If you don't like it, move on. There are plenty of fems to hook up with, if demeanor is as unimportant as they say it should be.

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  6. I just wanted to respond to the straight-acting anonymous poster above. For the record, I am also a straight acting gay man, but I do not share his views. There are two issues I would raise here.

    First of all, the theme of this post is that traditional masculinity is the most desired of all things and that nobody should try to claim masculinity (i.e. worthiness) if they are not authentically masculine. Come on man.. All people can be beautiful, and this poster needs to get rid of that frankly backwards and retrogressive view that the heteronormative ideal is the one true ideal.

    Second of all, there is definitely an element of aggression and disdain for the gay community by the anonymous poster. While I also don’t get into gay pride and all the gay stuff, have a little compassion, man! This life is hard, and being gay, and a fem, and otherwise different makes it all the harder! We need to stick together and to care for each other because otherwise we become part of the cruel world that has caused so much pain suffering already.

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